I have zero experience with ReWire. I'm aware it exists, and that somehow it connects audio and MIDI between DAW software.
Since Cubase 8.5 is my DAW, and I still run Notion 5, are Notion 6 and Cubase compatible via ReWire, or is this only possible with StudioOne?

Retired hobbyist

VSL Special Edition, VE Pro & VI Pro, MIR Pro
Windows 10, Core i7 4790K PC 32 GB RAM, SSD's
Notion 6, Cubase 9, Dorico 1.0

I think yes but I can't still verify because my asio scope drivers have pb with notion 6 (maybe repared in next release maintenance)
I have asked already here :
https://forums.presonus.com/viewtopic.php?p=113653#p113653

Notion 6.5 - Cubase 10.x 64bits- Pro Tools 2018.x - Windows 8.1 pro 64bits - wavelab element 9.5.x - core i7 920 - 18 Go RAM - 250 Go SSD (system) + 1To SSD (sound banks) + 32 Go SSD (current audio projects) + 4.750 To HDD.- ANTELOPE Discrete 4

Thanks, Jerome.

Retired hobbyist

VSL Special Edition, VE Pro & VI Pro, MIR Pro
Windows 10, Core i7 4790K PC 32 GB RAM, SSD's
Notion 6, Cubase 9, Dorico 1.0

I don't have Cubase Pro 8.5, but I downloaded the 30-day trial version of Cubase Elements 8 and did a quick experiment with outstanding success . . .

THOUGHTS
I do everything on the Mac here in the sound isolation studio, so I have no idea whether this works on Windows machines, but intuitively I think it does . . .
I used existing projects for NOTION 6 and Reason 9, so they already had tracks set to output to ReWire channels . . .
[NOTE: In NOTION 6, you need to change the outputs for the channels you want to use in a ReWire session to ReWire channel pairs, which is done via the dropdown list box at the bottom of each track . . . ]
Cubase Elements 8 recognized both applications and all the possible ReWire channels, so connecting NOTION 6 and Reason 9 was very easy, and in fact was easier than any Digital Audio Workstation (DAW) application I have tested, which is the case because Cubase Elements 8 sees everything and does the infrastructure connectivity automagically on the Mac . . .
Connecting the audio streams did not require any virtual MIDI cables or anything else other that what is there automagically . . .
The technical perspective is that ReWire makes it possible for applications to expose or to publish their connectivity so that other applications can see what is available for sharing and so forth in a ReWire session, and when properly implemented this is what makes stuff happen automagicallly on the Mac, as most likely is the case in the Windows universe . . .
[NOTE: I first encountered this use of the word 'expose' in the late-1980s when attempting to read Bjarne Stroustrup's now classic software engineering book on the C++ programming language, where the 'class' concept was introduced and I learned that one of the apparently marvelous things a 'class' does is to'expose' various parts of itself, mostly its 'methods' and 'properties'. Not being Danish, I thought this was a bit odd, but the book was a stellar sleep aid, since every time I attempted to finish the first chapter I inevitably fell asleep. Jump forward a decade, and some of the concepts began making sense. I was able to design a tall building in my mind that comprised many rooms, each of which was like a cookie made using a cookie cutter, and I felt quite enlightened and was pleased with my newfound ability to reify objects . . . ]
The comparison chart for the various versions of Cubase indicates that all versions support ReWire, so Cubase Pro 8.5 and Cubase Artist 8.5 will do this, as well . .
There are a few rules that are very important to follow when engaging in a ReWire session, and most of them are easy to understand and follow, but a few of them exist to prevent everything from becoming confused . . .
On the Mac, Cubase Elements 8 running in 64-bit mode does not like the Native Instruments VST 'Replika' plug-in, and it crashes trying to verify 'Replika', so I removed 'Replika' and parked it in a safe archive area, at which point everything worked nicely . . .
[NOTE: When Cubase Elements 8 is running in 32-bit mode, it does not have a problem with the 'Replika' plug-in, so it's only a problem when running in 64-bit mode, hence the need to remove the 'Replika' plug-in, since running in 64-bit mode is preferred, as you know . . . ]
Another odd behavior occurred when I tried to add a VST effects plug-in to the NOTION 6 score during the ReWire session, which caused NOTION 6 to freeze with respect to ReWire transprt functionality, but this was remedied by saving the NOTION 6 project; exiting NOTION 6; and then restarting NOTION 6 in the continuing ReWire session, so trying to add a VST effects plug-in only confused NOTION 6, not Cubase Elements 8 or Reason 9 . . .
[NOTE: NOTION 6 did not crash, but it's ReWire footprint changed, and the way to correct ReWire footprint changes is to exit NOTION 6 and then to restart it, which updates its ReWire footprint. This might not be the best way to explain what happens in the code, but it fits the behaviors, so it works for me, and this applies to all ReWire applications in one way or another, hence it's not unique to NOTION 6 . . . ]
Until you discover all the rules--none of which are documented--there can be a few annoyances, but they are easily remedied and avoided once you discover them . . .
For reference, I did not do the more elaborate experiment in which everything is playing something in everything else, where for example NOTION 6 is playing a Reason 9 Synthesizer; Reason 9 is playing a NOTION 6 instrument; and both are playing Cubase Elements 8 instruments, while Cubase Elements 8 is playing a Reason 9 synthesizer or instrument, but so what . . .
Nobody except me does this, and I do it mostly because it's fabulous . . .
Complete Digital Music Production System ~ 2016
Just because something appears to make no sense doesn't always mean you shouldn't do it . . .
Lots of FUN!

Last edited by Surf.Whammy on Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:56 am, edited 2 times in total.

The Surf Whammys
Sinkhorn's Dilemma: Every paradox has at least one non-trivial solution!

Thanks Surf Whammy. That was very informative.

Retired hobbyist

VSL Special Edition, VE Pro & VI Pro, MIR Pro
Windows 10, Core i7 4790K PC 32 GB RAM, SSD's
Notion 6, Cubase 9, Dorico 1.0

DaddyO wroteThanks Surf Whammy. That was very informative.

Glad to help!
I did another experiment and verified that NOTION 6 can play Cubase Elements 8 instruments via MIDI, where the strategy is to use NOTION 6 External MIDI staves to send MIDI notes to Cubase Elements 8 via a virtual MIDI cable . . .
The MIDI sent from NOTION 6 is routed to a MIDI track in Cubase Elements 8 and then is used to play a VSTi virtual instrument like Halion Sonic SE2 . . .
Mac OS X includes virtual MIDI cables, and there are virtual MIDI cables for Windows, where these are two of the most popular virtual MIDI cables for Windows:
LoopBe1 (Nerds.de)
loopMIDI (Tobias Erichsen)
THOUGHTS
There is a limit to the number of VSTli virtual instruments you can have in a NOTION 6 score, and this limit becomes smaller as the complexity of the VSTi virtual instruments increases to the level that on the Mac there are a few VSTi virtual instruments which are so processor and resource intensive that only perhaps one or two of them can be in a NOTION 6 score, which maps literally to one or two staves for the entire score, which is fine with me since these VSTi virtual instruments are heavily sampled and produce very realistic sounds . . .
I solve the problem by creating a set of NOTION 6 scores for a song and using them one-at-a-time to build the instrumentation in layers where the audio for each layer is recorded in the Digital Audio Workstation (DAW) application in a ReWire session . . .
Conceptually, this is the way songs tend to be recorded in the real world using the strategy of recording subsets of parts over and over, and for example was the way the Beatles recorded most of their songs at Abbey Road Studios, which became both possible and practical in the 1960s, as contrasted to the mostly monaural 'live' recording style that was state-of-the-art in the 1950s and earlier, with the general exception of recordings done by Les Paul, which were layered . . .
By hosting VSTi virtual instruments in a DAW application like Ableton Live, Cubase, Digital Performer, Logic Pro X, or Studio One, for practical purposes there are no such severe restrictions, and you have have a virtual festival of VSTI virtual instruments . . .
Then via NOTION 6 External MIDI staves and virtual MIDI cables, you can compose music notation and use it to play the various VSTi virtual instruments hosted in the DAW application, where this is done in a ReWire session primarily in this instance to keep everything synchronized, which is one of the things ReWire does . . .
The MIDI notes and commands are sent via virtual MIDI cables in this method, but ReWire play a key role . . .
It's also possible to use ReWire to handle the MIDI streams, but this is an advanced use of ReWire and it's not implemented by all DAW applications . . .
NOTION 6 implements this, and Studio One implements it, hence the automagical MIDI stream connectivity without needing to use virtual MIDI cables . . .
[NOTE: At present, I am reasonably certain this is the case with NOTION 6 and Studio One 3.3, but I have not verified it, yet . . . ]
The practical aspect is based on the indisputable fact that the work NOTION 6 does with respect to handling music notation and doing the required real-time conversions to MIDI streams is a lot of work and requires a lot of processing and rapid system memory use, which is the reason it's possible to overwhelm NOTION 6 when you load it up with VSTi virtual instruments and VST effects plug-ins . . .
The reality that each VSTi virtual instrument and VST effects plug-in itself is a computer program, and some of what each one does happens in workspace of NOTION 6 . . .
The ReWire session strategy makes it possible to move the VSTi virtual instruments and VST effects plug-ins out of NOTION 6 and into the DAW application, where the way it works is that the DAW application really doesn't need to do so much processing compared to the work NOTION 6 needs to do, hence in this strategy the otherwise significant and potentially overwhelming burden of having to host a virtual festival of stuff is eliminated and as a direct consequence NOTION 6 can focus on what it does best without being overwhelmed with other stuff, because the 'other stuff' is running in the workspace of the DAW application, either entirely or at least partially . . .
And it's useful to understand that ReWire is an advanced technology and activity, so at first it requires a bit of learning . . .
As noted in my previous post, there are a few rules, but they are not so difficult to learn and when followed everything works smoothly . . .
You can work in NOTION 6 in a ReWire session where NOTION 6 is running as ReWire slave in the same way as when NOTION 6 is running as a standalone application, which technically is a singular variation of a ReWire session, but so what . . .
Explained another way, when you run NOTION 6 by itself, you are participating in a special type of ReWire session . . .
It's a ReWire session, but the only participant is NOTION 6 . . .
Lots of FUN!

The Surf Whammys
Sinkhorn's Dilemma: Every paradox has at least one non-trivial solution!

As a bit of follow-up, I found the solution for the Replika (Native Instruments) problem, which was to install the new update for Replika (v1.3.2) . . .
Once I did the update, Cubase Elements 8 recognized Replika correctly and had no problems with it, so it passed VST verification . . .
THOUGHTS
Curiously, I received an email from Native Instruments informing me that there is a new update for Kontakt 5, so I used the Native Instruments Service Center application to do the update and noticed that there also was an update for Replika . . .
Cubase Elements did not like the old version of Replika, but it likes the new version . . .
For reference, Replika is a VST effects plug-in that does reverberation and echoes . . .
It's nice, and I use it sometimes . . .
Lots of FUN!

The Surf Whammys
Sinkhorn's Dilemma: Every paradox has at least one non-trivial solution!

I have been experimenting with the 30-day trial version of Cubase Elements 8 (Steinberg) for a few days, and while initially I was not convinced that Cubase Elements 8 supports ReWire MIDI, I now have verified that it does support ReWire MIDI, in part because I did experiments to explore ReWire MIDI and discovered how it works with Studio One 3.3 Professional . . .
[NOTE: Since ReWire MIDI works with Cubase Elements 8, it also works with the Cubase Artist 8.5 and Cubase Pro 8.5, so it's all good in the Cubase universe . . . ]
As explained in another recent topic, the key is to use the new ReWire MIDI staves functionality provided in NOTION 6, which looks like this in NOTION 6 Score Setup . . .
Once there are ReWire MIDI staves in the NOTION 6 score, you exit NOTION 6 and then start a ReWire session where Cubase Elements 8 is the ReWire host controller and NOTION 6 is a ReWire slave, which is done by starting Cubase Elements 8 first and then starting NOTION 6 after Cubase Elements 8 is running . . .
At this point, Cubase Elements 8 instruments (native and hosted VSTi virtual instruments) are aware of the ReWire MIDI staves in NOTION 6 and as shown in the following screen capture, you can set the Input for a Cubase Elements 8 hosted native or VSTi virtual instrument to one of the ReWire MIDI buses and channels provided by NOTION 6 . . .
[NOTE: Although it's not so easy to see, the red rectangle area is the Input control for the instrument. The left-facing arrow is a separate control, so you want to click on the Input control area to cause the list of MIDI inputs to appear . . . ]
If you study the screen capture for a moment, you will observe there is a pattern of a set of 16 NOTION channels followed by another set of 16 NOTION channels and so forth, which repeats 16 times . . .
It's not so clear by the names, but these are NOTION 6 ReWire MIDI buses and their respective 16 ReWire MIDI channels, so the first set is ReWire MIDI Bus 1 and its 16 MIDI channels, while the next set is ReWire MIDI Bus 2 and its 16 MIDI channels, and so forth . . .
How difficult was this to do in Cubase Elements 8?
Not difficult at all!
Once the ReWire MIDI staves were present in the NOTION 6 score, which is easy to do in NOTION 6 Score Setup, when everything switched to the actual ReWire session, the NOTION 6 stuff was there automagically to select . . .
NOTION 6 publishes its ReWire MIDI buses and respective channels, and Cubase Elements 8 sees them automagically in the ReWire session . . .
There is no messing with virtual MIDI cables, MIDI ports, and so forth . . .
The ReWire infrastructure handles everything and in this instance the two applications (Cubase Elements 8 acting as ReWire host controller and NOTION 6 acting as ReWire slave) know how to connect for purposes of NOTION 6 sending MIDI to Cubase Elements 8 for purposes of playing instruments (native and VSTI virtual instruments) hosted in Cubase Elements 8 . . .
The music notation in NOTION 6 for the respective ReWire MIDI staves is converted at playback time to MIDI and sent in real-time to Cubase Elements 8 . . .
This is kept synchronized by the ReWire infrastructure, and it's all good . . .
THOUGHTS
Unless one happens to be a software engineer and to have a reasonably deep understanding of ReWire technology, this might appear to be a trivial thing, but it's accomplished by a lot of advanced software engineering, and from my perspective this functionality by itself is more than sufficient to justify the upgrade from NOTION 5 to NOTION 6 . . .
It makes something that was rather complicated--using NOTION External MIDI staves, MIDI Output ports and channels, and virtual MIDI cables--very easy to do without needing to mess with all of what I now am calling 'Manual MIDI' . . .
If you want to use music notation in NOTION 6 to play native and VSTi virtual instruments hosted in Cubase Elements 8, it's now very easy to do and it doesn't require you to learn a bunch of technical stuff about MIDI, virtual MIDI cables, interconnectivity, and so forth . . .
In NOTION 6, you create some number of ReWire MIDI staves; write some music notation; and then in a ReWire session where Cubase Elements 8 is the ReWire host controller and NOTION 6 is a ReWire slave, Cubase Elements 8 automagically sees the NOTION 6 ReWire MIDI staves and knows how to connect everything, which is part of what the ReWire infrastructure does, along with keeping everything synchronized in terms of Cubase Elements 8 being at the same measure and beat as NOTION 6 when doing playback, which includes synchronizing the tempo and so forth . . .
Another key difference is that with ReWire MIDI you can have as many as 256 staves of music notation and use it to play 256 native or VSTi virtual instruments hosted in Cubase Elements 8, where in contrast the limit was 64 instruments with 'Manual MIDI' where you could have 64 External MIDI staves . . .
I have not verified this yet, but it's likely that ReWire MIDI is faster and more efficient than 'Manual MIDI' . . .
From another perspective, it's easier to explain how to use ReWire MIDI productively than to explain all the advanced infrastructure and virtual MIDI cabling required to to 'Manual MIDI' . . .
Considerably easier!
And since it's easier to explain and to use, it's more likely to be useful in a practical way . . .
Being among other things a software engineer, I think all the elaborate technical stuff is a bit fascinating and certainly worthy of devoting hundreds of hours of studying and experiment--not of which time maps to doing any actual music composing--but I think this probably is not the case for everyone, and in fact I think that most folks want to focus on composing, arranging, and producing rather than tinkering with nerdy technical stuff . . .
ReWire MIDI moves using NOTION 6 staves and the music notation they contain to a level where (a) it works pretty much automagically and (b) you don't have to mess with a lot of computer science stuff . . .
You might think to yourself, 'Gee whiz! I might want to do that, but only if it's easy and doesn't require me to become a computer geek', and this is what the new ReWire MIDI functionality in NOTION 6 does when working cooperatively with a DAW application that implements ReWire MIDI . . .
It's easy, and it works, which is what makes it practical . . .
Lots of FUN!
P. S. This is a high-level diagram of what happens in a ReWire session, and if you need to add ReWire to an application, this probably is fascinating, but if your focus is on composing, arranging, and producing, then I think it's probably not so fascinating and from a practical perspective is something you really want to happen as automagically as possible, so that you don't have to mess with all the software engineering stuff, because your a composer, arranger, and producer, not a computer geek, really . . .
[NOTE: This diagram is public, and it's not proprietary or confidential information. The Propellerheads make it available for folks who might be interested in becoming third-party ReWire developers or just want to have a better understanding of ReWire. In this diagram, Cubase is the 'Mixer application' (a.k.a., ReWire host controller), and Reason is the 'Panel application' (a.k.a., ReWire slave). Similarly, NOTION 6 in this scenario will be a 'Panel application', although in other scenarios NOTION 6 can be a ReWire host controller. . . ]
[SOURCE: ReWire Technical Information (Propellerhead Software) ]
Really!

The Surf Whammys
Sinkhorn's Dilemma: Every paradox has at least one non-trivial solution!